One thing I have noticed since I started posting here and at a few other places is that most of us have far more in common than we like to admit. The fact that we are taking time out of our day to discus policy says we either care about this stuff or don’t have much of a life.

Almost everone likes a fiscal conservative, personally I think that is why Bill Clinton was so popular. The problem with Bush is tat he claims to be a fiscal conservative but he keeps letting government grow. As far as freedom, social conservatives seem more like Christian socialists and I don’t get the impression they care about the freedoms of people who believe differentely from them.

Bush’s latest “if you critsize me you hurt the soldgers” routine is just a weak president hiding behind the flag. These are just my opinions.

I hope you have a good day.

I should have been a little more specific in my statement above about Bush stating this would be a long war. The war he and I were referring to is the war on terror. This is going to be a long battle. The battle in Iraq is just a part of the overall war effort. Syria and Iran are big concerns to war effort. As much as I hate to say this I think there is more to come in the way of military action against terrorist targets in other countries.

The treatment of soldiers and veterans is a sore spot for me as well. I have serious issues with how our government, past and present (Bush and Congress), have handled certain issues. These people answered the call and put there buts on the line when we needed them most and we treat them this way? It is a disgrace but again this is another topic for another thread.

I want to declare a time out from personal hostilities here for a second and point an article I found this morning. It kind of puts things in perspective a little bit. Lets keep in mind who the real enemy is. Hint – it is not you and me arguing here about political beliefs. Lets also keep in mind who are family is. Hint – the Iraq people want freedom just as much as we do. Warning you may need tissues before you are done reading this. Enjoy.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/huerta200511110822.asp

I never heard that the Iraq war would be a long fight. Cheney was on record saying it would take weeks maybe months. If bush really thought it was going to be a long tough fight why did he put on a flight suit and declare victory so early? The politics were plyed when Bush decided he needed a war to insure re-election.

The real disrespect of the armed forces comes in the way injured soldgers are treated and the way Bush and the right wing have smeared anyone who disagrees with them.

Nice to see you back, since right thinker went to the sports book no conservatives have consistantely been here.

I come from a family that was about a 50-50 split of military people and civilians. My dad was a Air Force Officer, my brother, uncle and grandfather all served for some time (Navy, Navy and Army). Some for more than 6 years and my dad for 28 years. I could not sign up because of medical reasons so I do not have the first hand experience you have. I have discussed much with my brother and father the closet people, to me, in my family that did serve. My father was hard to get information from because he is the one that went to Vietnam and returned. If you know anyone from that condition you would understand the difficulties in extracting information. As I mentioned before I know first hand the impact it had on my family and I think I can state I understand the sacrifices the soldiers and their families are making. I am no war monger and hate the thought that this is what it is going take to get the job done. Thousands of years of evolution and war is the best solution man can find?

There are bad people in this world and freedom is not cheap. I know because I and my family have paid a price … and my father was one of the lucky ones that came home. There are a lot of people who trade places with me in an instant. There are way too many orphans, widows and parents who have hole so big in their lives that nothing will fill it. And I think current trends in politics and the media insult them.

But this is where I think you are wrong. Anyone with access to the Internet can have an opinion with the entire world to see. The soldiers have such access and many have taken the opportunity to speak out. Most agree that war is hell. Most agree we are not getting the whole story. Do not take my word for it. Go and see for yourself. If I link tons of web sites and blogs you will accuse me of only finding stories that back up my point of view and you would be right. Therefore I challenge you to go out with an honest effort to get the real story. If you still feel the same I can respect your point of view but I will not agree with it.

My contempt for the media can not be overstated. They have obviously made some choices just like they did in the last election. again do not take my word for it. Pew research is a pretty good group that is independently funded and they found heavy bias in the election and war coverage. To me this is no surprise to anyone paying attention. The choices they have made are that Bush is bad. War is bad and terrorists are just misunderstood and we need to think about why and how we as Americans caused this to happen.

I am sorry but I do not agree. America has faults and we have made mistakes in the war on terror. Bush and his staff have made some bad choices and given America some black eyes and I am angry about that. But choosing to go to war was not one of them.

My friend from Italy, responding to my email shortly after 911, said “there is a time to stand and fight and now is that time.” After many hours of soul searching I agreed. We are doing a great disservice to our troops to give even the hint of non-commitment to this

war effort. Bush said in the beginning it would be a long fight, and many Democrats including Sen. Biden, to name one, agreed. We need to stay the course and finish the job correctly to honor those who have and still are sacrificing. The media and the Democrats are not doing that now. They are playing politics and it hurts the soldiers and the efforts they are making. Again go look for yourself. I have and I am angry about what I found out.

I hate this I think faster than I type and I know I did not get everything in here I wanted to but I guess this will have to do for now. I am sorry I am not as eloquent as some of you but I hope my thoughts got communicated clearly enough.

When we’re talking politics here at home, it’s easy to assume a lot of things about whether or not a soldier in Iraq agrees with what we’re saying. Fact is, there are Democrats, Republicans, Nihilists, Independents, etc. represented in our military.

From my experience I think it’s safe to say that the majority of them fall into the ‘undecided’ category. Usually not because the arguments are so compelling they can’t choose who they want to believe – but because they don’t pay attention to it.

Walk through an infantry company barracks with a few poll questions on DC specifics from the week and you’ll get a lot of shrugged shoulders in response.

“do not be afraid!”

We must repeat again and again that America’s honor is no illusion. Imperfect as it may be this is still the land to which – in large or small ways – every free nation owes its current liberty. This is the nation that has routinely sent its idealistic young men off to foreign lands, to die there, not for empire, not for real-estate, but for the protection and advancement of that unseen thing that is freedom, the strengthener of the human spirit, the burnisher of human potential. First Children and their motley co-horts aside, this is still the nation to which every creative or industrious person wishes to come, it is the nation to which the oppressed call out for rescue and relief.
We must repeat, over and over, that the American Presidency is, like a papacy or a monarchy, larger than the person who occupies the office, and it is noble. The American President freed slaves before anyone else would entertain the notion. The American President has carried the big stick used to overthrow tyrants and bullies both foreign and domestic. The American President has put his airmen to use to keep his vanquished enemies in Berlin from starving in a brutal winter, he has used his navy to bring aid after tsunami. The American President has dreamed great space voyages into reality, has opened closed markets, has encouraged a people to tear down walls. The American President has envisioned tens of millions of people raising purple fingertips to the sky, and made it so.
We must repeat, over and over, that Liberty is the means by which we created creatures are meant to live and to grow and be. That Liberty lives in the Truth. That Liberty lives where people can speak freely, without fear of injury or reprisals. That Liberty lives only when the press is free and unencumbered – when it is detached from events instead of entwined in them. That Liberty lives when people refuse to be intimidated into silence or acquiescence, whether in the workplace or within the community. That Liberty is the fragile thing that diminishes whenever one refuses to acclaim it for oneself.

http://theanchoressonline.com/2005/10/29/the-art-of-the-painless-coup/

Sigh … where to begin??

Chris I respect your opinion but I also believe it is wrong. Not just wrong but dead wrong. I can not word that any stronger.

The Democrats and Main stream Media have long boasted and supported the Anti-war, Cindy Sheehan and friends, contention that “Bush Lied and People Died”. It is a fabrication and any honest assessment of some of the links above would tend to prove that. I think most people looked at the facts prior to last election and did just that.

The politicisation (is that a word?) of this issue was by the mainstream media and the Democrats. They launched the Bush Lied (yada yada yada) campaign and Bush let it slide by not challenging it. How any intelligent person can look at the facts and state that is beyond me. Bush has finally called them on it and it is about time.

The troops do care and are paying attention and if you look into it yourself they are pissed off on how the war is being portrayed over here and in the media. Do not take my word for it go look for yourself. Do not watch CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, NYT or MSNBC as they will distort the message and have been from day one.

I have read numerous accounts of the soldiers abroad and they are upset at that we the people back home are not getting the whole story about the war in Iraq and the overall war on terrorism. They have access to the internet and are aware of how this is being reported. They care.

Look at some the blogs by the soldiers and see how they feel about things. Read the Winds of Change and other blogs that try and bring you the honest assessment of what is going on. Read the “Good News from Iraq” series and see what a pitiful job the media is doing in its reporting. If I listened only to the major news outlets I would also be against this war. If I came back from Iraq and saw this I would be pissed. No one is saying War is pretty and I can say that from experience. The Vietnam war affected my family and everyone came home. I know there are families that would easily trade with ours. The point is the troops do care and I resent you Chris saying they do not. This is important and the Democrats by making this statement have hit the moral of the troops hard. Just so they can hopefully gain power in an upcoming election cycle. They should be ashamed and as an American I am ashamed of what this has turned into. The enemy would love nothing better than the public support for this effort to fold and we bring the troops back to early. They would claim victory and rightly so. This is going to be a long war and Bush has said so right from the beginning.

Again do not take my word for it. Look for yourself. It may take some work to find but Google is amazing. Most of Iraq is more stable and better off than they were before we went to war and ousted Saddam. Reconstruction of schools and hospitals and essential resources has made living conditions better. The people have hope, hope of freedom and they are not taking it for granted. They are thankful to the Americans and tired and angry that foreign soldiers are killing them because they can not reach the Americans as easily as they could before.

Are there problem areas? Yes of course. But fewer and fewer of them if the truth be known. The ability of the enemy is getting weaker. But you would never know that by watching the news. The soldiers are happy they are making a difference and are bitter we are not aware of that. Most upon return re-up to go back. I just recently read an article about a group that came home and 90% re-enlist to go back. Boy that the argument that we are locked in a quagmire sound awful hollow. We have Heroes over there, the next “Greatest Generation” is making a difference. Too bad no one wants to cover that. But listen to the Dems and the media and you would think the US was the scourge of the world and Bush the anti-christ. Give me a break. We need to be held to higher standard and although not perfect we have done just that. It is time to be proud again of what we are and what we are doing. The Military has done an incredible thing in turning over 2 hostile regimes and minimised the casualties both militarily and civilian. When looked back upon this War could be the most human war ever compared to the total impact of wars past. But no one wants to talk about that. Not Anti-Bush or American enough. The only countries that did not want us to go into Iraq, France China and Germany, have all by linked to the Food for Oil UN scandal. Funny why do you suppose they did not want the US to invade Iraq? Hmmm.

You can say I am biased but it looks like to me, after examining all the information available, that the Dems, the media and the UN want us to loose. That they are anti-American. Just my humble opinion.

The attack by Bush on the Democrats was long overdo.

Sorry if I wrote too long or this makes no sense. I am under pressure from my real word responsibilities and this is just a quick brain dumb. I had some much more to say that I am sure is not here…. Oh well. Duty calls.

karl: Torture is not winning friends in Muslim countries.

RT: No one cares about what Muslim countries think, Islam is an invasive religion that you can never appease so you should stop trying.

Why are we in Iraq if dealing with nations of Islam is so pointless? Right, Iraq is a nation of Islam according to the constitution they voted to ratify.

karl: Even if invading Iraq was a good idea why not bring in enough troops to do the job.

RT: Because we shouldn’t be doing this unilaterally but since the U.N. and most of the security council was on-the-take we had to go on our own to do what was right. Now Frnace is dealing with their fraud in the form of muslim riots. We were proven right about Saddam and militant islam but liberals to this day refuse to hear any of it. Michael Moore thinks Iraq was Disneyland before we invaded. Plain ignorance.

Right, how do you know the riots were fueled by religion? I’ve heard and read quite a bit to the contrary. How do you qualify the France riots/Islam connection?

RT: I also believe the media is going above and beyond to build the negative against the President and build morale in the ranks of the terrorists around the globe. I’m all for debate and critical thinking but the Deans, Schumers, Reids and Kennedy’s don’t care about the troops, just about getting elected and defeating Bush.

Bush brought the negative press on himself. Right, a WH staffer is facing federal charges. They didn’t make any mistakes in how they handled the Iraq War? They didn’t exagerate?

RT: The President came out on Veterans Day to boost America’s morale and the morale of the troops and all liberals could do was shit all over it and then throw in the unemotional, malice intended, “but I support the troops”. This couldn’t be further from the truth.

Right, take it from me. The soldiers in Iraq neither heard, nor do they give a shit about what any politician has to say, president or otherwise, about anything. They’re not a part of this world we exist in at all. Bush’s speech was political.

Not only do the soldiers in Iraq have heavier concerns than politics, but being where they are and doing what they do, there’s simply a natural detachment from everything.

Attacking Democrats in a Veteran’s Day speech as a method of ‘boosting morale’ is probably not going to help the morale of the soldier who’s a Democrat.

Right, are you saying that the only soldiers who deserved a speech that would motivate them were the Republican soldiers?

Blaming the UN for our ill prepared invasion

Not ill prepared rather we were fighting a cold war against France, Russia and Chine that we didn’t knoo about. We are ill-prepared for the Deans and Kerrys of this world whole leverage human suffering for political gain.

I agree with your last sentence. Certain governmennts probably did give the US bad information. Chalabi has been rumored to work for Iran. If he does I hope they are paying him well as he has done a good job for them.

Zarqawi seems fairly powerful in Iraq and Al Sadre also seems to be doing well there. Nice that we helped these people rise to power.

Blaming the UN for our ill prepared invasion. Seems like a reach.