Grown Locally

This entry was posted on Sunday, November 16th, 2008 at 1:54 am and is filed under Al Swearengen, Video, politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the comments RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

16 Responses to “Grown Locally”

1. John Rove says:
   

   What about con-agra I would hate to see their CEO have to sell one of his planes. Obama needs to show some compassion for the CEO class

   November 17th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
2. caveat bettor says:
   

   This will work as well as Chairman Mao’s idea that every household should refine steel in their backyard. Utter foolishness.

   November 17th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
3. John Rove says:
   

   Hey Mr Bettor:

   I think local farm are a little bigger than the average persons back yard. Where I think something like this might help would be in the choice of crops and how animals are reaised.

   I just read the omnivores dillema where he shows that essentially are entire food supply is based on corn and by subsidizing corn we create unhealthy and inhumane condittions. Why not at least try to encourage sustainable agriculture.

   November 17th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
4. Al Swearengen says:
   

   caveat – how about an argument against the economics of what I put forth? Eliminate politics from it, and how is the US population not going to benefit from something like this?

   November 17th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
5. caveat bettor says:
   

   http://www.haloscan.com/comments/caveatbettor/7365488094368253818/?a=21402

   November 19th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
6. caveat bettor says:
   

   Al, I did put forth an economics argument, one originating from economist Mao. Take your suggestion to its logical conclusion, each of us should farm an acre for every 3 people in our household.

   According to economist Ricardo, this is not nearly as productive use of time for us as letting Big Ag do it for us, while we create more value doing something else. To grow all your own food will take many weeks per year. You only need to work a few weeks per year in your current job to buy the food at your local grocer. Not only do you have more weeks left to be productive, you’ve created value-creating jobs in the agricultural, transportation, and retail industries.

   November 19th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
7. John Rove says:
   

   Mr Bettor:

   It seems like part of the reason big ag is so “efficient” is they spread many of the costs to the public. Meat is cheap mostly because corn is heavily subsidized so it is cheap to use use feed lots. If corn was not subsidized feed lots would not be cost effective.

   The production of of corn also has enviromental costs both in the form of water polution from all the fertalizer and overgrowing ruins the soil.

   Big ag gives us cheap food because many of the costs are paid indirectly by the public.

   Small local farms might actually be self sustaining without government subsidies and hidden costs. Food might cost a little more but if it wasn’t subsidized the total cost would be less.

   The other thing about your example about people being more “eficient” assumes that everyone is going to wok to their maximum efficiency, I don”t think cheap food does that so much as just enables people to spend more time waching TV, blogging and wasting time in other imaginitive ways.

   November 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
8. caveat bettor says:
   

   So JR, economically speaking, you wish food prices to inflate? What would that do to the poor in America, and the even poorer non-Americans?

   We do agree on eliminating subsidies. I just think its important to reduce starvation. Not sure your suggestions get us closer to accomplishing that; in fact, you would be increasing death and suffering in the world.

   Surprising, that.

   November 19th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
9. John Rove says:
   

   I will have to give that one some thought. My first reaction is that locally grown food would help to eliminate famine. I know that in many places where their is famine the real problem is with food distrabution not a lack of food supply.

   Plus, right now it seems like most our access production goes into keeping beef cheap.

   The idea is to get away from industrial corn that needs a lot of water and petroleum based fertalizer to crops that are a little easier on the land and perhaps in poor areas a little easier to grow.

   November 19th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
10. caveat bettor says:
    

    JR: I know about 50 folks who have gone to Rwanda over the last several years, and there are land use issues–basically, land is not privatized, so it is hard for someone who wants to farm to farm. After solving that problem, then we can help the local farmers with crop rotation, irrigation, and export technologies.

    You talk like the world is like America. It is so not.

    November 20th, 2008 at 9:14 am
11. John Rove says:
    

    Mr Bettor:

    I found this on Rhwanda:

    Between 1897 and 1943, several famines occurred in several sections of Rwanda, partly because of the irregular distribution of food and population. In 1928, a severe famine occurred in central and western Rwanda. Over 300,000 people died, and another 100,000 migrated out of the country. In 1943-44, severe drought caused crop failure and another major famine, in which another 300,000 people died or migrated.
    Variations in annual rainfall and temperature make life for the subsistence farmer precarious. Individual family farms around the Virungas are typically a few acres in size, but the fields are not adjacent. Individual fields and pastures are often located in pieces a few miles apart in different geographic settings: on high hills, low hills, and valley floors. The purpose is to plant crops in as many different types of sites as possible, so that if a frost or dry spell destroys crops in one field, perhaps crops in the other fields some distance away will survive.

    The fragmenting of farms makes machines, such as tractors, difficult to use (aside from their cost). Individual fields are also too small to use these machines effectively. Consequently, western-type modernizations of farms for increasing yield are impractical, as well as not affordable, in Rwanda.

    I got it from here

    From this it looks to me like indaviduals own enough land for subsistence farming, and the droughts are caused at least in part by the deforestation that has occurred in the Virunga area, as forests help to store water.

    I think it would be a mistake to try to bring all these parcels of land under the control of one entity, whethr that entity is a corporation or a government it is still taking land away from the people who rely on it and placing their lives in the hands of others.

    I agree that they should try to encourage crop rotation and drought resitant crops but to try to duplicate the US ag system, with chemicals and geneticaly engineered crops would be a mistake and would probably lead to more famines.

    The best thing we can do for Africa is encourage them to have less kids, which really is the best way to increase the quality of life for everyone. I know we always wind up arguing about population, mostly I think that happens because most if not all of the worlds problems could be solved if people would stop over-crowding the planet. I did my part now it is timefor you to do yours.

    November 20th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
12. John Rove says:
    

    When I say it is time for you to do your part I am encouraging you to get a vasectomy. The animal shelter that I worked for had a van that that would go to different areas and do low cost spay and nueters, ten dollars for cats and thirty-five dollars for dogs.

    I think we need a van that goes around and gives vasectemies.

    November 20th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
13. caveat bettor says:
    

    Well, JR, when you are able to eliminate taxes (which require taxpayers), I will get that operation.

    November 20th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
14. caveat bettor says:
    

    And while I do not have any worthy counter to your internet research, that certainly has not been our experience in the Kigali region over the past 5 years.

    November 20th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
15. John Rove says:
    

    Mr bettor:
    I think guys like Shawn Kemp and Travis Henry are doing more than their fair share of keeping us knee deep in future taxpayers.

    Seriously I don’t think if we encourage birth control I don’t think the human race will dissapear. I know the supply of unwanted cats is always increasing despite spay and neuter laws.

    November 20th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
16. caveat bettor says:
    

    It always comes back to Idiocracy, it seems:

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/idiocracy/#

    November 20th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

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